Wildwood Stable Frustrations........

Ok, just have to vent my frustrations over Wildwood stable and their EHV-1 vaccine policy and the customer (or rather not customer in my case) service. A few things I want to say before going into the story on Wildwood.

I have ridden all my life. I have owned horses since 1980. I always gave all the vaccines to my horse that were recommended by whatever vet I presently had. Back in the 80, it was pretty simple, rabies, tetanus, eastern/western and a coggins test and that was it. Over the years, the list started to grow; Potomac Horse Fever, Strangles, West Nile, Botulism, Equine Influenza,Rotaviral Diarrhea, Rhino...... the 3 way vaccine became the 4 way vaccine became the 5 way vaccine as we gave vaccine coctails to our equines without thought. Well, at some point I did start giving it some thought but hey, Vets know what they are doing and we can trust them..... right? Well, yes and no. I have come to realized that vets are just human, not some all knowing gods. And to put such blind faith in them and all they do is really not fair to them. Like anyone else, some are good at what they do and some are not. Some have specialities and intrestes in certain areas and those vets will know more about those areas. Some that are good don't keep up on current techniques or new technologies and my not know as much as they should on any given subject. That's just the way it is in any profession.

Anyway back in 2005, my horse Marie got an auto-immune disease called Purpura (ok there's a longer scientific name but this will do)this auto-immune disease was caused by over vaccination with the Strangles vaccine. It was a horrible thing to watch my horse suffer through and she nearly died. This began my research into all the vaccines I was pumping into my horses body and boy did I get an eye opener. Even after research, I am not anti-vaccine. I fully realize that vaccines can and do save lives. But, I think we have gone too far and are creating more problems with our vaccine cocktails then were are solving. We are simply overwhelming our equines immune systems.

So, on the the EHV-1 (Rhino) vaccine. This is a vaccine that I do not think is necessary to give to my horse. Or most horses for that matter. The Rhino virus manifests as the flu in an equine. It is contageous from horse to horse but it rarely kills and will simply run it's course in 10 to 14 days in most cases. Here's what I've learned about the rhino vaccine:

1) It is not a particularily effective vaccine. The vaccine for rhino does not appear to be able to prevent outbreaks and is questionable as to whether it even helps stem the signs and symptoms. only creating an immune response in 30 to 50% of equines. Currently the studies show that the vaccines is only able to possibly reduce the symptoms of the respiratory form of the disease in about 50% of the horses. One last bit of bad news is that none of the vaccines out there are able to protect against the neurologic form of the virus.

2)It has a very short duration of immune response, only 2 to 3 months.

3)Repeated vaccinations every 3 months would keep an equine better protected ...... except that an equines body has a limited capacity for responding to vaccines. If you give it too many vaccines at the same time or space them too closely, you dilute the immune response to each vaccine. So giving multiple vaccines every two to three months over a long period of time will reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine which has a poor effectiveness to begin with.

4) Horses rarely die from the respratory form of the disease. No more then from any other equine flu. Like in humans, the old, young and sick are always at more risk. And there is no vaccine for the neurological form that horses have died from. Many if not most of the horses that have died from the neurological form were vaccinated horses.

So, in short, I do not think that the benefits of this vaccine are even close to outweighing it's risks. Back in 2007, there was an outbreak in Maine of the neurological form of EHV. In a knee jerk reaction, many places suddenly required the Rhino vaccine. But, once it was realized that the vaccine offered no protection against the neurological form, nearly everyone dropped this policy. I do endurance and competitive trail riding and I have camped and competed all over the state of Maine. I have competed in the states of VT, NH, MA, and NJ and no one has required this vaccine. I have also camped in State, National and private campgrounds in the states of NY, PA, KY, OH, IL, MI and SD and again, I have never been required to have this vaccine.


Ok, FINALLY onto the Wildwood part of this entry.

I have a friend that does a partial in-barn lease on my horse Marie. She made reservations in late spring or early summer to camp and ride with some friends at Wildwood Stables in Acadia National Park the second week of August. As the time drew near, I realized that the stable required the Rhino vaccine and that Marie, of course, did not have it. All my friends have been grumping about the stables policy requiring the vaccine and only get the vaccine so they can camp and ride there. So, I called Wildwood stable to talk to them about this. When I called, I got one of the stables employee's. I posed my questions to her and she told me should could not answer my questions and would have Emily Carpenter, the manager call me back. Emily did call me that afternoon. I asked Emily why they felt the need to require this vaccine. She started in telling me how the vaccine protects the horses and so on. I explained to her to her about my horses situation and that I had done a lot of research on the vaccine and that I knew it was not a very effective vaccine and had a short immune response. About this time Emily told me, very clearly, that the vaccine policy was not their (her and her dad) policy. This was a policy of the park service and though they didn't necessarily agree with it, there was nothing they could do about it.

Well, ok then. So, I did an internet search to find out who to contact in the park service that I could talk to about this. I found an email address and sent a message. I did not contact the right person but my email was forwarded to Liz Weston who is in charge of park concessions. Liz got back to me right away. Following is her response:

Dear Ms. Ross:

I received a copy of your email message about the Rhino vaccine sent to me
from Ellen Grosseibel.

I consequently forwarded it to Mr. Michael Carpenter, owner of Carriages of
Acadia, Inc. that now operates the concession at Wildwood Stables.

For your information, the park necessitates what the State of Maine
requires in the way of vaccinations, certifications and inspections which
does not include the Rhino vaccine. (See attached file: EIA State of Maine
Require.htm)

The decision to do so at Wildwood was one made by the operator. While the
park has had discussions with Mike and Emily Carpenter over the winter
about this vaccine, there was no decision to change the requirements at
this time.

I appreciate your taking the time to express your views and concerns and
have asked Mr. Carpenter to answer your correspondence directly and copy me
with that response.


Liz Weston
Concessions Specialist
Acadia National Park


Well, this was getting more and more...... interesting....Mr. Carpenter did not respond to my email. I then got another email from Liz Weston.

Dear Ms. Ross:

I spoke with Mr. Carpenter yesterday and he is aware of and understands
your concerns about the Rhino Vaccine.

However, because this is the busiest time of the season, I volunteered to
respond to you directly. Carriages of Acadia, Inc. will not make any
changes to their vaccination requirements at this time.

During the "off season" Mr. Carpenter will continue his reconsideration of
requiring the Rhino Vaccine. When a decision is made, the park will be
notified and all vaccination requirements will posted on Carriages of
Acadia's website.

http://www.carriagesofacadia.com/

Liz Weston
Concessions Specialist
Acadia National Park


I was pretty unimpressed with this response. Not from Liz, but from Mr. Carpenter. I then read a post from someone I know who also was less then impressed with the customer service of Wildwood stable. His concern was about unanswered phone calls and messages. (And this turned out to be a whole other story, and not the Carpenter's fault) I forwarded this email to Liz Weston stating that apparently I was not the only one that Mr. Carpenter was too busy to talk to.

The next day I received a phone call from Mr. Carpenter. I work nights and was sound asleep when he called so when I picked up the phone, I was a bit fuzzy headed. He said his name which didn't really register and then started telling me all about this problem with a phone number and how Ed Winterberg was trying to ruin him....... I at first just could not get my mind in gear and did not know who this was or what he was talking about as I'd had no issues concerning any phone numbers. It was the name Ed Winterberg that finally got my mind going. Finally, I was fully awake and got the conversation restarted. Anyway, following our phone conversation, he sent me a statement by email that pretty much sums up our conversation. Or his side of it anyway.


Carriages of acadia
Michael E. Carpenter
P.O. Box 1406
Houlton, Maine 04730
1-877-276-3622
email: carriagesofacadia@yahoo.com

July 27, 2011




Dear Ms. Ross:

Just to clarify and to follow–up on our phone conversation of this morning I don’t believe that my daughter gave you mis-information. It was our company policy on the Rhino Virus and we have agreed to re-visit this before next year. You have every right to long for the good old days of Ed Winterberg and Jim Davis however, you should be aware of Mr. Winterberg’s continued efforts to cause the demise of Wildwoods. Mr. Winterberg still retains the old phone number (207-276-3622) and the voice mail directs callers to leave a message for a return call. Obviously, for the dozens of people who still have that number there is never a return call. Our toll free version (1-877-276-3622) is often mis-dialed by people with the old number or people who mistakenly believe that they don’t have to use the 1-877 prefix if they are in the state. I apologize for the confusion and the angst it causes but perhaps you could prevail upon Mr. Winterberg to give up his childish efforts to hurt us and move on. I am truly sorry for any confusion or upset.

Sincerely,

Michael E. Carpenter
Carriages of Acadia

MEC/tlc

Well, Mr. Carpenter's daughter Emily clearly and positively told me that the policy was from the park service. But, I was not going to press the issue. It didn't matter. If he was going to at least revisit the policy for next year, I'd done all I could. At least I was going to let the issue rest.......

My friend Barbara, who had the reservation to go to Wildwood Stable, called the stable to see if there was anyway she could bring my horse, Marie to the stable. Emily was not available to speak to but the woman working in the office told Barbara she would leave a message for Emily to call Barbara. Then she proceeded to tell Barbara that she was quite sure there was nothing the could be done as THE VACCINE CAME FROM THE PARK SERVICE AND NOT THE CARPENTERS!!!!

I sent another email to Mr. Carpenter telling him what had happened. He then told me that he would contact the state vet and talk to him and see what his recommendations are at this time and that he would call me back. Mr. Carpenter did call me after talking with the state vet and told me that the state vet was still recommending that facilities and show venues require the vaccine. Mr. Carpenter sated that he was going to continue to follow the guideline recommended by the state vet. He gave me the contact # for the state vet if I wanted to talk to him. I emailed the state vet with my questions and concerns. I received the following reply.

Hello Cindy,
Thanks for your e-mail regarding our policy on equine herpes vaccination. Since 2005, in consultation with equine veterinarians in Maine, I have been recommending that equine facilities require that all horses entering their facilities be vaccinated for equine herpes (rhino). You’re correct that most scientists realize that this vaccine probably doesn’t protect against the neurologic form of herpes but feel that the vaccine may reduce viral shedding by infected horses during an outbreak hence minimizing the severity of the outbreak.
I have attached a copy of the letter which spells out this policy. The bottom line is that stables can implement their own policies based on their assessment of the risks and in this case, their policy is consistent with what we’ve been recommending here for the past six years.
Sincerely,
Don Hoenig, VMD

Below is the attached letter Dr. Hoenig sent


TO: THE MAINE EQUINE COMMUNITY

FROM: DON HOENIG

DATE: MARCH 30, 2009

SUBJECT: EQUINE HERPES MYELOENCEPHALOPATHY (EHM, also called EHV-1 and rhinopneumonitis)

Over the past several years, many racetracks and training facilties in the Mid-Atlantic region have imposed restrictions on horses entering their facilties due to the outbreaks of EHM in our region. Maine experienced an outbreak in the spring of 2007. This fall and winter both Delaware and Maryland have had episodes at boarding or racing facilities. Since 2005, I have met or conferenced annually in the spring with several equine veterinarians and representatives of the Maine equine community to determine recommendations on EHM.

After discussions with the Equine Practitioners of Maine on March 26, I’m continuing to recommend that tracks, agricultural fairs and equine training facilites in Maine require that all horses entering their facilties be vaccinated for EHM (rhinopneumonitis) and equine influenza, not more than six months or less than 14 days before entry. Proof of vaccnation should be listed on the Certificate of Veterinary Inspection (required for all horses entering the State of Maine) or on a certificate of vaccination signed by the owner’s practicing veterinarian. (Please remember that any horse entering the State also needs to have a negative EIA test within the previous 12 months).

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and please feel free to call me if you have any questions.

Ok, see the lines I've put in bold and red print. So, Mr. Carpenter is NOT following the recommendations of the state vet as he is NOT requiring the vaccine within six months and he's not requiring the vaccine for equine influenza at all. Now, if he did, I would still not agree with this but at least I would be convinced that the Carpenter's were truly interested in trying to protect horses and not just making some lame attempt to ..... well I don't know what they are trying to accomplish.

At this point, I did NOT want to ruin Barbara's trip to Acadia and it was too late for her to get her deposit back. So, I told her if she wanted to have Marie vaccinated she could do so. My truck was having break problems so she would have to figure out a way to get Marie to the vet. Susie volunteered to take Marie up on Tuesday afternoon. Mr. Carpenter had called and left me a message on Monday and I managed to get in touch with him on Tuesday morning. He told me that he knew of another place in Bar Harbor that you could stable horses overnight to ride the trails that I might want to check into. We then talked about Marie getting her vaccine in the afternoon and he said that it would not work out as their policy stated the vaccine must be given no less the 14 days before arrival to the stable. Barbara was going to Acadia in 7 days. I asked if he would accept a health certificate in place of the vaccine. Mr. Carpenter said no, that would not give him what he was looking for. ?????? Just what is he looking for???? Obviously not a healthy horse.

So, that was that (I thought) I called Susie but could not get in touch with her but did leave her a message to let her know that Marie would not be getting her vaccine. I called Barbara and told her what Mr. Carpenter had said. After talking to me, Barbara cancelled the appointment with the vet then called Wildwood stable to cancel her reservation. When she called the stable, Emily said she WOULD have let Marie come if she'd had the vaccine today............... When I heard this I just wanted to scream. Emily's statement was that even though Marie would not be protected BY the vaccine in such a short time, she would be protected because of the other horses there having the vaccine. HOW STUPID IS THIS STATEMENT AND HOW POINTLESS IS THIS! My horse would be in the exact same position as if she did not get the vaccine at all. And she would NOT be protected by the other horses that have been vaccinated as any horse there that had been vaccinated more then 3 months ago would not not be protected either!!!!! So what is the point at all of letting my horse come if she had the vaccine today, less then 7 days before coming to the stable. The only point I can see is that Emily is showing she is the one in charge of the stable and SHE has the power to call the shots there and wants to prove it. Below is my final email to the Carpenter's and the park service.

Emily and Mike,

I just have to express my disappointment at your stubborn refusal to see this issues with any common sense. And the conflicting information from the two of you has been more then frustrating. What with Emily (very plainly and clearly) telling me that the policy came from the park service, then Mike telling me the policy was definitely NOT from the park service but his and Emily's policy. Then my friend calling and having someone in the office yet again state that the policy came from the park service. Mike, I have already said and will say again that I DO appreciate your time and that you have kept in contact with me. But this whole thing absolutely makes no sense and absolutely shows that protecting horses is NOT what this policy requiring the Rhino vaccine you and Emily have is all about.

You will accept proof of vaccine within one year. Even though the vaccine is not good for more then 3 months. So, you are perfectly willing to let unprotected horses stay at the stable. And when I talked to you this morning Mike, and asked about getting my horse vaccinated today (8/4/11) and my friend bringing her to camp there next week (8/9/11) in 5 days, while you did say no, when my friend called to cancel her reservation, Emily told her yes, she could have come if my horse was vaccinated today. Even though the vaccine would not create an immune response for at least 14 day. So, once again, Emily was willing to let a horse on the property that was unprotected from either spreading or catching this virus. Since my friend could not get her $50 deposit back, she has re-booked to come in October. But, unless she finds another horse to bring, she will be in the same situation with my horse that she is leasing.

When I asked if you would accept a health certificate in place of the vaccine. You said no but that you would check with Emily on this and get back to me today. You have not. Now a health certificate WOULD tell you if my horse showed any signs of illness. ANY kind of flu or virus. Not just the Rhino flu but ANY kind of flu. With the health certificate you would ACTUALLY be protecting horses, with an expired (over 3 months) or too new (less the 14 days) proof of Rhino vaccine, you are doing very little to protect any horses. You said the health certificate would not "give me what I'm looking for". What are you looking for? If you are looking to only have healthy horses on the property......that is just what a health certificate will give you, What does a piece of paper stating my horse had a vaccine (with a short immune response) 6 months, 8 months, 10 months, or 5 days ago, give you?

You consulted with the state vet on this issue and because he is still recommending this vaccine, you are standing by your policy. But, you are NOT following the state vets guidelines. His guidelines recommend the vaccine within no less then 14 day and nor more then 6 months as any more or less than that is pointless. So to say you are keeping the policy because it is the state vets recommendation is not true as you are NOT following his guidelines.

If this is just about covering yourselves for liability...... well, it's sad if that is all that matters to you both. And it still doesn't make sense even for that reason as equines rarely die of the Rhino flu. And it's no more prevalent or dangerous then other strains of the flu. Horses have died of the neurological strain of the virus but the vaccine doesn't protect against that strain. (And, as a note of interest, the horses that have died from this strain have been vaccinated horses) So, since the strain the vaccine MIGHT provide SOME short term protection for is no more dangerous or contagious then any other type of equine flu such as Equine viral arteritis (EVA) , Equine influenza, Potomac Horse Fever or Strangles and they each are spread the same way and pose about the same threat to equines, why do you not require proof of vaccines for these bacterial or viral diseases? Why would anyone be less likely to sue you over their horses getting one of these at your facility?

So, if your policy doesn't make sense in regard to protecting horses as you accept vaccines that are too old and too new to provide any protection. And it doesn't truly make sense from a liability standpoint, what does that leave a person to think. Since you won't accept a health certificate, a TRUE indication of a horses health, I have to believe that you have just dug in on this matter and decided to stand firm simply because you have your backs up about this now.

Mike, I did contact Wild Iris Horse Farm. Thank you for that information. They do ask for a rhino vaccine there also. BUT, will accept a health certificate in place of the vaccine. So we will be able to stable there in the future when we wish to ride the carriage trails. And when I talked to Sandy from Wild Iris, she too was under the impression that it was the park service that was requiring the vaccine and thought that might be why you would not accept a health certificate.